Poll: Is there any interest in a Windows version of ShowEQ?

[Spot]

Ratt,

If you guys do go ahead with a windows version, I would publicize the project on every EQ web page, message board, and Gammer News site possible. Get as many people to use Winseq as possible. There is no way they would ban everybody that would start using this easy to use version. I would bet there loss in revenue could be shot up into the Million dollar range. If you guys make this so easy to use and keep it working, it might force them to go back to the old key encryption? Who knows, Im just sad it has come to this.

[dum1]

ok, question

with todays cvs we can input the decode key manually

so, if you use a windows machine on the network(not the client box) to scan for the key in memory on the client box, is that detectable?

dum1

[bonkersbobcat]

so, if you use a windows machine on the network(not the client box) to scan for the key in memory on the client box, is that detectable?

You can't get to the memory on the client box from another machine, unless you have an agent or some other software running on the client box. (Memory is not directly available from the network.)

[Hedge]

This makes no sense to me from a SOE standpoint. If they shut down the Linuz version there will eventually be a Windows version. You can expect A LOT more people to use the windows version than are currently using the Linux version. So why on earth would they do it if for no other reason than to ban peoples accounts? If they do that it's like Ratt said they lose money. I would not rerole a new character on a new account I would just move to a different non-SOE game.

If we can still keep it Linux then lets do. If not then I agree with Ratt screw SOE lets do a full port to windows and make it as undetectable as we can.

[Nano]

I am surprized SEQ has lasted as long as it has.

I am wondering though, if VI feels threatened enough by this, might they just decide to spend the resources into converting the EQ server-client communication system into something of a 'bubble' system that other online MUDs use?

While SEQ would still be able to theoretically decode mobs that enter within the players 'bubble' range, doing this would still dramtically cut down on the field of view SEQ has within a zone.

As a matter of fact if VI did manage to move EQ to a bubble system, it would help players on poor internet connections since the server would theortically not even be sending data reguarding spawns or players outside of the bubble.

Yes, VI would have to revamp the 'tracking' game skill to accomidate it, but like I said, if they felt threatened enough by this, they may decide to spend the recources into developing such a system.

[Blaze]

well, SOE may be smarter then they look.

People are not going to want to move on to SWG or EQ2 if eq is fine, and they are really far along.

Now if something came along, that made you question all the other players in the game 'Did he just have lucky timing, or is he cheating' people will love to move to a new game as long as SOE tried to push the fact that they are working alot harder on the encryption.

[SeqTester]

/cheer Ratt

I love reading your posts. Also on the Dave (DTV/Hues) issues they spen XXMillion on designing a new card that was unhackable, Well as I am sure Ratt and a few others know, the P4(New "Secure" smart card) has already been hacked by the Det/Windsor team(/cheer Dex and his Crew).

So even the MOST secure things are not secure.

PS: I dont even play anymore bu Girlfried is still Addict so I keep up on this. I told her No Decode, just GPS. But I am sure there will be a fix, like all unhackable things.

PSS: Nothing is 100% secure even condoms say they are ony 99.9% effective.

[quackrabbit]

In case you don't know, Patrick is the coder from SoE responsible for today's fiasco. Here's his comments on today's changes:

<somenick> Patrick, what was the real intention of changing the encryption a tad?
<Patrick> um
<Patrick> to break showeq
<Patrick> why else?

There ya have it.

[zfod]

Welp,

There we have it.

Now I'm just chillin, waiting for the code to be set completely free.

Let me know when all the hand-waving and doomsday predicting subsides.


zfod

[Fatal]

The thing that gets me is them basically throwing down the gauntlet. It's very comparable to what Dave (dtv) did.

Everyone was fine running 3m's on the hcard and minding their own business watching their free movies. The HU card was out but folks were not really too interested in messing with it. Let me rephrase, they weren't 'dedicated' to cracking the 'uncrackable' card. Then Dave made a mistake. He put out the ECM that over wrote the first bytes of the card that said GAME OVER. He threw down a gauntlet and said "Let's play".

And the community got riled. Sure, it was mass mayhem for a couple weeks. Then they started glitching the cards past the bad spot. They put more effort in to hacking the HU (p3) and they then cracked the p4. Dave spends millions of dollars trying to stop a relatively few folks from hacking a card, meanwhile making it worldwide knowledge that these cards were in fact crackable.

They spent millions of dollars to make sure everyone knew there were folks out there watching their DTV for free. The problem is bigger than ever.. and now its no longer just a hobby.. it's a game.

SOE is doing the same thing. You have a group of folks who like to play the game using SEQ. Now by targetting them, they are going to feed a fire that is going to burn their house down.

Soe should give Dave a call and ask if they would do things differently.

Opps, gotta go watch DTV.

[Spook]

Ratt,

Thanks for the post declaring your thoughts. I completely agree. What you said abouit porting to be trivial is completely true. I have been using SEQ with a few mods to transmit decoded information along my local net as a server to a VB.Net client with a similar interface. Why ? I detest QT I have developed the 3D mapping on Win32 and port to Linux after dev'in on Win32. The only thing holding back the floodwaters is the methods to implement the decoding as you well know. What's held me back from releasing my SEQ frontend ? The same reasons as always and the respect to keep to them.

The power of the SEQ project remains in yours and the other core devs hads by virtue of the decoding techniques. It will still take talent/time to work out a memory sifter. I ported Anarchy Online's famous ClickSaver to VB.Net with my own modifications so I know this is not too difficult, just time consuming.

I'd like to see the SEQ project turned into a black box, a Linux black box. Where, the decoding is still kept relatively secret and a small API used to stream information to whatever client (OS independant) that wants it.

You're right, SOE is crowding the SEQ community into a tighter corner. They want the utility and they will have it regardless just as in your fine example about the sat hacks. Well, fine, if this is the case, lets make it easier on ourselves by controlling how the wave will be ridden. Meaning, control how decryption will be done. I'm pretty sure it exists already, but memory sifting is not in the forefront as the popular method or it would have been widely known due to people not wanting to screw with setting up Linux. That part makes me think the SEQ core community can still work with the latest SOE stupidity.

I'm not releasing anything to anyone (aside from 3D map work for Linux SEQ) without consultation with you as I consider you to be the one holding the reins on the project. I wish I had de-crypto talent, but all I have is some skill at making front-ends. Either way, I'd still like to contribute so let me/us non-core devs know the new focus.

Havok !!!

[PawnOrc]

I think you guys have all missed the boat. Unless I missed something in this thread ...

This has nothing to do with EQ. It is about SWG. SOE is working on a better method to roll into the SWG development. Don't expect them to stop. They are beta testing SWG security on you.

Imagine a corporate conference room in Foster City, CA:

Lucas Rep: You guys have cheaters in EQ. We don't want kids being cheated in SWG.

SOE Rep: We can stop the cheating. It was a small problem not worth the cost of fixing.

Lucas Rep: We will split the cost with you. Just find technology that will keep the kids from being cheated by these guys.

SOE Rep: No problem. We are working on it now.

Second miss: You don't understand the privacy laws as well as you claim. One example question - can SOE get consent to scan? Answer - absolutely. Only limitation is the fear that people will not buy the product if they do. At this point I think they can safely bet that most people will gladdly give consent - just to nail SEQ users.

My bet: SOE will escalate everytime you do. Eventually, they will ask for and get consent to task scan. Expect a SOE poll about that sometime after Christmass.

Suggestion: Find a way to make the task hard to scan for. Is the scan name based? Is it based on op calls? How does scanning work?

[devnul]

RATT DON'T DO IT!!

WE know you can.

Look they screwed up. But it's still not time to drop the big one.

THINK about it. Yeah your ego is saying 'they deserve it!'

But its probably just one idiot that talked his boss into doing this.. a boss that has no idea.

If you do this you have to think when you hurt SOE you aren't just hurting some nebulous corporation.. it's real people with real jobs. Only a couple people are likely guilty of stupidity.

Your weapon is one of mass destruction and I hope you will be responsible with it's use. You can hurt a lot of people, I implore you don't do it unless you have to.

We understand why you feel the way you do, but play it straight.

When you use your weapon of last resort.. well you have no more resorts

Ratt, you're the MAN. You kept this together and you kept it contained. Many people owe you more than they can repay.

But AS the man you need to not go all emotional over one cockup from SOE.

dn

[Manaweaver]

You have a point with SWG, but I think the issue is that there is no way to permanently break SEQ or programs like it...I'm not an expert in any form of cracking decryption but I'm simply agreeing with what has been said...if we want it to be, eventually through the hard work of the fantastic dev team, it will be. I try not too take your work for granted and if it wasn't for those bastards at pay-pal I would've all ready donated for Pizza/beer =)...they say something about me all ready being registered...go figure.

Not even just the dev team...the other bunch of people out there who find joy in cracking decryption and breaking things that are supposed to be unbreakable.

I totally agree with the statement that most people who use ShowEQ are not the big dicks in the game. I personally only use SEQ when there is something I want for myself...not on spawns so that I can Farm a JBoots MQ(best example i think would fit)...or to farm endless rallic packs(I did that without SEQ heh heh)....I think the majority of what I use SEQ for is Travelling, finding out what MOB's actually look like (IE level...class....that sorta thing), seeing what the zones look like as a whole, and quad kiting....I try not to use it to camp spawns and I definately hate the thought of someone abusing SEQ and making it horrid for the rest of us.....either way whats done is done and I support the dev team on any decision they make. They've been at it for quite some time now and I think they know whats best for SEQ. Go dev team, godspeed.

I'd love to see SEQ in its mostly current form for as long as possible.

Oh and a PS...I think SOE is also retarded for opening this can of worms as well....and I loved that nice long rant =). really filled me with joy to see someone who is hellbent of thwarting the man....but enough of my truely innane rambling....let someone who knows what they're talking about speak now =)

[Manaweaver]

Oh, just a quick though...have you actually thought about setting up a meeting with a member of SOE? I mean...you can explain the case and all the possibilities of what may happen but think of it...you would be actually seeing their responses of whats all ready been stated here in this forum...I'm SURE there are plenty of SOE people who read this forum on a daily basis seeing what we're cooking up...i mean seriously Yahoo Search: SEQ Install HOWTO comes up with this site pretty quickly...and we're not a secret....so what is there to lose? Simple questions from a simple man...try to be constructive with your thoughts...we're all supposed to be a community after all =)