A little off topic but if anybody would know...

[Indifel]

Since the ShowEQ developers around here have probably seen more of the EQ datastream than they care to remember, I figure if anybody has the answer to this question, then you guys certainly would.

Anyway, there have been numerous reports on the EQ tech support boards of a problem regarding packet loss that goes away when you /say, /gu, /who all, etc. Tech support is pretty steadfast in their belief that it's a network issue (which it isn't) or some configuration issue (which it also isn't). Testing and the programmers, if they've even heard of the problem, probably refuse to believe it's on their end, since it's been happening for months (with a huge increase since PoP was released).

I'm just curious if anyone around here has had the chance to inspect the EQ datastream during one of these fits and gathered any information on what the cause might be (or at least what the symptoms look like). I'd do it myself, but my network setup right now (wireless down to a NAT router, shared amongst several people, and not in my apartment) makes it difficult.

Alternatively, if anyone has an idea for how I could check this out myself given my limited network options - and without running a packet sniffer on the EQ box, *grin* - I would very much appreciate it.

[Ratt]

If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, I _believe_ the issue is with the client computer.

I've occasionally seen text get lost (having two computers side by side, one gets the /gu or /say or what have you, one does not).

Given the nature of the UDP communications, I'd say a packet is getting dropped somewhere... whether it's on the Sony side or the client side, I can't say, but the problem is basically with the protocol, in the end.

[Indifel]

We're not talking the occasional packet missing here or there - we're talking total crippling loss of information. Can't cast spells, can't see what anyone is doing, can't see incoming text. The PL meter generally starts showing around 30% packet loss - not all in one block, but intermittent. Occasionally it clears up on its own, but usually it progresses right on up to 95% or so, just enough to stay connected for a couple minutes. The server doesn't set the character as linkdead for quite some time.

It seems to happen most often in crowded zones with both high throughput and heavy graphics load. For example, standing in bazaar, you can get the packet loss, hail or /who all to make it stop, and it's okay until you rotate, bringing other characters (and their accompanying new textures?) into view.

If any application starts a new thread on the client machine, the packet loss stops instantly. It usually comes back after a little while, though.

My guess is that there is no loss of packets along the way, but either the network device is failing to receive them, the kernel is failing to handle the network device, or EQ is somehow tossing the packets or letting a buffer overflow somewhere.
Anyway, I thought maybe somebody around here had seen this problem in action and had the chance to observe the nature of the packet loss to determine whether there really was any. I thought maybe EQ was somehow pre-empting driver routines, but there's really no way for me to test that.

[rencro]

I've had this problem, I have a Linksys Router BEFSR11, with firmware version 1.43 dated Sep4,2002. Anyways, once I updated to this firmware I would have the same issue you describe and a "bandaid" was to set the routers "MTU" from 1492 down to 1092. But its something SOE changed recently that caused these problems to creep up, before I upgraded the firmware I would LD every 20 min, this was around the time of the PoP patch that broke SEQ. Before the patch everything was GREAT!!.

edit: BTW, problems only on win98 - me . xp was fine the whole time.....

[datadog]

I threw both of my Linksys in the garbage.

Im using a Siemens Speedstreem now..

only problem i have is that under situations where I have alot of text turned on.. (i.e. bazaar, /auc, etc) i will drop an occasional character out of a text message in /gu /g or /say, etc...

Funny thing is.. i can have two computers side by side seeing exactly the same text.. one gets errors once does not. And its not always the same computer..

/shrug

[MisterSpock]

The Linksys routers, as nice as they are to setup and manage, do seem to have some serious issues. Ironically, I went with one of the Siemens units, too, but had a terrible experience with it.

Anyway ==

One thing that I've noticed: If you are dropping characters in chat, OOC, etc, it seems to be related to the "bad word" filter. For me, at least, turning off the bad word filter stopped the character-dropping problem completely.

If I thought they'd lift a finger to fix it, I'd /bug it...

[fryfrog]

i got one of the linksys routers the other day (replaced my ipcop firewall). it was the 4 port switch with built in WAP. can't remember the serial #. i updated the firmware, but was having some LD issues. i'd of course known about the linksys problem so i just searched the eq forums...

the port triggering fix is what made it work for me, but a lot of people don't understand it.

goto advanced, then "forwarding" then click "port triggering"

chose a name "EverQuest" (doesn't really matter) and put the first and second rage as "1024" ~ "65535".

what this does is anytime ANY computer makes a request on ports in this range, the router sets up a temporary port map to the computer that requested the port. what is happening (i think) when you get the 95% pl is this:

udp is a stateless connection, initiated by the client (why nat works). when something happens and the server and client lose sync, the SERVER tries to initiate a connection BACK to the client... this won't work for people behind NAT firewalls. port triggering seems to fix this.

i have not had any LD issues after using port triggering. would be nice if they would narrow the RANGE down some, i've heard someone used just 1024-7000 or so though. i just now changed my mtu to 1492... but i believe that all the clients on the network need to have the same MTU or lower, no? otherwise the person with a 1092 MTU on their router is going to be creating a MASSIVE number of fragments.

[lane]

Using /hail has been a long standing say to "get a connection back". I started using it about a year ago when someone started hailing the crap out of a mob we were killing and I laughed at them. They told me why they did it and it does seem to work quite a bit.

As for opening ports from the outside... Umm can you say security breach? You are now allowing anyone to spam your computer. I do agree with the theory, it's just that the fix seems worse since it looks like you are also opening up TCP for connections from the outside also.

-Lane

[fryfrog]

lane, you mis-interpret the "port triggering". it isn't opening a massive port range. lets say you use 4 eq computers, each one connects out on a different random port. the linksys router then creates a back-port forward for ONLY those 4 ports that were triggered.

[Indifel]

The port triggering fix does indeed take care of one particular PL problem with that version of the Linksys firmware. After about eleven minutes or so, the router will drop the NAT entry for your UDP traffic, which causes an instant stop in any traffic between you and the EQ servers.

That's different from what I'm talking about, which is intermittent and is not related to router/NAT issues at all, since a symptomatic treatment is entirely self-contained within the afflicted machine.

In any case, thanks much for trying Take care....

[FlumberBum]

I have this exact same problem (As described by Indifel), and I've never been able to find a working solution. Last night I tried the /hail idea, and I'll be damned, but it works. It doesn't permanently fix the problem, but it does fix it for a little while.

For what it's worth, I also have Linksys, and I regularly play with 2 systems, and the problem has never shown up on the second system, only on the first system. I'm at a loss, but hearing that it's happening to someone else finally gives me some relief that it probably isn't something I've done wrong. That or we are both doing the same thing wrong

[datadog]

I'd be interested to know what your filter settings are like.

Same on both? /filter badword is on or off?

What about /servervilter? on or off? same on both?

[The Mad Poet]

Linksys has problems with thier newer firmware - I downgraded my router to an older firmware and this fixed the 'ld every 15-20 mins like clockwork' problem

The wierd packet loss with fixed by Hail - I'm not sure what causes that - but I do notice that if you disconnect 100% then reconnect that it will go away.

Also if you start to experience the problem it will follow you through zones for your entire EQ session.

Personally I think it is a router problem on the Sony side - and it's just luck which router you get onto when you start the game - which is why the problem is so random.

And yes 2 computers side by side *can* get different routers on Verant's side when you play.

Because it's not across the computers on a local lan - and it's random not every time - this all points to a problem at Sony.

[datadog]

And yes 2 computers side by side *can* get different routers on Verant's side when you play.

huh ?

[Nurseling]

but only with win 98 after upgrade both computers on my network run great