so whats every1s view on the US/Iraq situaton?

[cryptorad]

Hey Futuro I have a question for you.

1) There are reports from Iraqi's that have surrendered that Al Qaeda operatives are in Basrah causing all that trouble.

2) There is another report that Iraqi's in full chemical suits were filmed while unloading 55 gallon drums from trucks today near some military positions south of Baghdad. Gotta love zoom lenses.


Are you ready to delete the "Futuro" moniker and create a new account? I'm just curious if you will cut and run, or if you have the guts to stand behind all your posts and accept the 'forum' abuse, I think you are going to get, when this all solidifies EXACTLY as you have been told it would.


Just a curious question.. after all.. it's not internationally accepted yet. Just rumors. Sorta like your "inpections were working" post. Just rumors.

[puppet]

Chyran

If you care to expand your knowledge here are a few link you might find interesting. I tried to find a few links that were scientific in nature (3 of 4) that may give a few details on the affects of depleted Uranium. I was not able to find one scientific study that established that depleted uranium significantly increases the chances of cancer. If you have one that does please forward the information.

You might also want to research what you believe to be true a little more thorough. It does not do anyone any good to come to the board and shout out untruthful information just because it helps your argument. If you don’t believe the War is un-just, that is fine but it does not help your argument to use false information. I think the current Administration had to learn the same lesson.


http://deploymentlink.osd.mil/du_library/health.shtml

http://www.cancerpage.com/cancernews/cancernews4302.htm

http://www.srp-uk.org/servdu.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uranium/


also:

Can you tell me why you are angry about the use of depleted uranium bullets but don’t seem to care that Saddam has used chemical weapon on his own people. This is a serious question, do you really believe that the USA poses a greater threat to the people of Iraq than Saddam does.

I am also waiting for the sources you mention concerning the German POW’s who were left to die.

*edit* had to change just to un-just. /bonk

[Alwayslost]

Cryptoad,

Didn't you know that the US has been secretly making Iraqi uniforms? Those are actually US soldiers creating False evidence. It's all staged.

Don't forget, the US is a big bunch of mean bullies, it's just EVIL of us to actually kill a civilian that Saddam had stand in front of a SAM targeting Radar. We should have waited till the Civy went to the can or something. Oh, the Civy is chained there? Well, that changes everything... now we just have to ignore that SAM site untill the ground forces get there first to cut him free. Ok, marines cut him free, but he's not moving... must have been the nerve gas tha the US launched on Bafhdad to speed up the war.


(how's that Futuro? sufficiently paranoid and full of enough conspiracy? Damn, I forgot the irrelevant and obviously Biased links and innane half facts...)

[Borscht]

the affects of depleted Uranium

Don't ya love this one? There's always some dopey loon who brings this into play, banking on the scariness of the word 'Uranium'. I'm glad you brought it to his attention, as I've shot this one down once too often and it's just too tedious anymore.

Makes for a nice, dense projectile that doesn't bounce off of stuff.

But the ninnies always seem to overlook the fact that for every round of depleted Uranium fired, there hasta be a bazillion rounds of conventional ammo fired.

Conventional ammo = lead. Hello????

Don't hear much about all that lead poisoning, among all those children who are somehow wandering around out in the old battlefields in the middle of the desert. Eating the sand, apparently.

I guess they have some racial immunity to lead poisoning, and it's just the depleted uranium that gets 'em.

[Chyran]

Well, it seems very easy for you all to just ignore the effects of DU. Unsurprisingly, puppet, your sources are all concentrating on the effect of DU on the soldiers. And even your sources say that there is already a small increase in cancer. The soldiers are exposed to the DU not quite as long as the people who live in the Iraq where all those bullets lie in the sand since the first gulf war. Of course you have never seen the pictures of their faces, of these mutations in TV. And you will probably never see them in American TV. It's sad, but true. But you could not have proven me that my opinion about you is right in a better way: you only care about the American soldiers. I, instead, care more about the people in the Iraq. Your soldiers have chose to be soldiers, I am sorry for them, but it was their choice. The people in Iraq never had a choice. These are the people you should care for. And not by bringing even more pain to them by fighting Saddam.

For you all accusing me of lying, and telling me to search longer for my information. You don't have to search long before you find what I quote. But you probably have to search a bit longer to find sources trying to say what your opinion is. Sadly, you don't seem to activate your common sense to analyze what you are reading. It can be very interesting to read between the lines, or to ask about things that were not mentioned in those reports (an example you might understand: a company reports that their gross revenues have doubled. Wow, great, this firm is really doing great you might think. So what could you ask? You could ask: "And how much profit did that firm make?" Yes, the information given in the first statement can be very misleading, if the company actually made losses). Of course, that is not what you do, because it will lead you to the kind of information you do not want to find.

About the sources of the Eisenhower order: I am sorry, but they are written in German. I could point you to them, puppet, but I am sure you won't understand them. As a person living in the greatest country that ever existed, you don't have to care about speaking other languages: you just expect people to speak English. Of course, in your eyes, it's the language. Well, it's of course an important language, but did you know that there are much more people speaking Chinese as their mother tongue than English? Wow. But China is, in your eyes, unworthy of existance, as all the other communist countries - no wait, as all other countries. Except glorious America. Sadly, futuro is very right: America is becoming a bit too pleased with itself. Give me a reason why America is so magnificent? You don't have any history older than 500 years. In fact, you did what you can to destroy any history older than 500 years ago. You are not wealthier than other countries. In fact, Americas depts are greater than those of many other countries, and this war will not reduce them. Your country is fighting in so many wars. Does this make it great? In my eyes, it just shows how poor America really is. The poorest of all are those who have to use force on the outside to distract from their poverty and fear in the inside.

Luckily, here in Europe, most people have learned finally that violence in not a way to make things right (sadly, there are still people holding might and ignoring their people who didn't learn this, what we see in Great Britain). This is why we are in fact more evolved that most people in America. You are, in your minds, where Europe was in the 19th and the beginning of the 20th century. Only you have so much power that you are much more dangerous than we were these times.

I am pretty sad that so many people here just get rid of things they don't like to hear from others as lies or paranoia. If you would just read what America has done, and could look at it from an outside point of view, and accept it as it is, you could understand the position of the rest of the world. Comments like "Didn't you know that the US has been secretly making Iraqi uniforms? Those are actually US soldiers creating False evidence. It's all staged." are absolutely possible to become truth. I could tell you as soon as the US troops started to invade the Iraq that they will find weapons of mass destruction, ready to be used against the rest of the world. Not because they were there, but because they need to be found to subsequently justify this war. And it will be like always: American people will see this in TV, and believe it. When it finally comes out some decades later that these weapons were placed there by Americans, nobody in America will get to know it. And if so, nobody will care any more. And we can read the same story again and again. It has for the past 50 years been like this, and I don't know when it will stop. It makes me so sad that there are people willingly blinding others in such a way to achieve the deaths of thousands and millions other human beings, and it makes me even more sad that the blinded people are struggling by all means when you try to open their eyes.

Truth is what you make of what you think to know.

Nuff said.

[Borscht]

I, instead, care more about the people in the Iraq.

Then you should be quite pleased that America is finally liberating them from the man who's murdered about 100,000 of them over the past 12 years.

Last week he cut one's tongue out, tied him to a stake in the town square, and let him bleed to death. At least he won't be suffering uranium poisoning. That's a plus, right?

The people in Iraq never had a choice.

The did before Saddam took over and nationalized all their private property and enterprises. And they will again, once they are liberated.

Saddam chose their destiny, by attempting to invade and conquer Kuwait. This led to bullets, some of which were made of harmless depleted uranium. Of the sort every modern military force uses, including Iraq.

but they are written in German. I could point you to them, puppet, but I am sure you won't understand them.

Nope. Thanks to America, only Germans have to speak German.

you could understand the position of the rest of the world

You are not the rest of the world. You are but a single mindless propagandist displaying your irrational hatred of America. Yet we still understand *your* position. We call it by its common definition...."sour grapes".

Truth is what you make of what you think to know

No, truth is what *is*. And truth is something you obviously have no real grip on.

I have one piece of advice for you though, Chyran:

"Brevity is the soul of wit."

Nuff said.

[cryptorad]

Chyran,

Did you say mutations?? From DU?

Care to back that up... my science education seems to place doubt on your statement.

[z26o]

The people in Iraq never had a choice.

And they never will as long as Saddam is there. So unless someone stands up to him, they will be without choice on a great many things.

[puppet]

Imagine that Chyran, you can’t back one of your statements up with facts. And you did not bother to give me an acceptable answer to even one of my questions. You my German friend are a tool. I am sure that german report you mentioned, if it exists at all is on some respectable site like www.germansWhoHateAmerica.com

I could tell you as soon as the US troops started to invade the Iraq that they will find weapons of mass destruction, ready to be used against the rest of the world. Not because they were there, but because they need to be found to subsequently justify this war.

I bet you will be surprised how many tools like Chyran say this after the War. I have been trying to think of what excuse they will use if Saddam use’s WMD during this war.

[Borscht]

I have been trying to think of what excuse they will use if Saddam use’s WMD during this war.

Oh, I think there are two things that we can easily predict about their excuses.

One would be, "Well with big bullies like America attacking, you can't blame them for using the only thing they have that stands a chance. If America was in their position, they'd obviously do the same thing. After all, America dropped nuclear weapons on Japan." There will be several variations of this reasoning.

They will likely also tend to portray the Iraqis as "progressives" fighting the good fight. Seeking that "worker's paradise" by revolution against the oppressive and dehumanizing forces of American capitalism.

It's the same old song and dance with these losers.

[Mr. Suspicious]

Thank god the founding fathers weren't liberals! Oh wait... they were...

Someone rename this thread to "post for those that refuse to use their own brain and believe only what the media feed them".

One of the few people using their brains here is Futuro.

[cryptorad]

So..

We can assume that Futuro and Suspicious are two who use their brains.. unlike the rest of us who just listen to what we're told. Sounds incredibly ironic to me.

Also sounds like a baseless character assassination. Typical.


i-ro-ny - The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning.


Let's just wait and see. Won't be much longer and we'll see who was right and who was wrong. But it's obvious your opinions won't be swayed by the 'lies' of the mainstream press whenever they report anything that proves you wrong.

Like the chemical suits.
Or the rockets.
Or the use of civilians dress.
Or the terrorist style attacks.
Or the terrorists themselves.
Or the chemical plants they already found with Scud missles inside them... etc, etc, etc..

After all, I'm sure you can prove the Iraqi's use Scuds to spray their fields for locusts. It's probably in the Quran somewhere.


If everything that is contrary to your believes is 'lies', then I guess you can never be wrong. Good position guys. Still.. I think you will be OVERWHELMINGLY proven wrong. Even YOU won't be able to deny the facts. It's already borderline and I can't wait for the huge pile of facts about Saddam from the Iraqi people themselves that will come out after they take Baghdad.

Better prepare for it now Futuro, Suspicious, Chyran. It's coming. And then I want to make sure you realize that your positions, your INCORRECT positions, was a huge contribution, if not the cause of the deaths of those people. All you HAD to do was back up the president and it wouldn't have gotten to this point. Saddam would have been forced to back down. But your rhetoric turned this into a hugely dangerous 'game'.

Yes. I am blaming YOU. Because it's true.


Don't take it personal.. after all.. the facts aren't all in yet. Sure as hell is playing out EXACTLY as predicted though. Not too hard to see where it's going to end up.

[Borscht]

Thank god the founding fathers weren't liberals! Oh wait... they were...

Heh heh, this is rich. Conservative and Liberal are relative terms, which have no objective definition outside the context of application.

Had the Founders been Conservative in the context of their time, they would have fought to preserve monarchy and the traditions associated with it. These being the mainstream traditions of their ancestral cultures.

In the context of *our* age, Conservatives conserve the progressive (in the historical context of *their* time) principles of the Founding Fathers. I.E. limited government, the God-given right to self-determination, the primacy of the rule of law.

Modern liberalism seeks to "progressively" move beyond these assumptions, and attain equality of outcome through the force and control of a powerful central government. Which ironically is a move back in the direction of monarchy; hardly progressive in the context of all human history.

Modern liberals also embrace the idea that morality is purely subjective...and that any belief or culture has identical moral weight as any other. Thereby rejecting the rule of law; law being merely the codification of commonly held moral beliefs.

By making this ludicrous statement, you reveal that you are totally without clue. But anyone who would defend the clueless is obviously one of their number.

You must think that a Soviet conservative and an American conservative hold identical beliefs. When in fact they would, while both being conservative, hold diametrically opposite views. For each seeks to conserve the opposite of the other.

A Soviet conservative, and an American liberal, share identical sympathies.

One of the few people using their brains here is Futuro.

Unfortunately, he's using them to dilate his anus. Which is where he keeps his head, most days.

[Mr. Suspicious]

Like the chemical suits.
Or the rockets.
Or the use of civilians dress.
Or the terrorist style attacks.
Or the terrorists themselves.
Or the chemical plants they already found with Scud missles inside them... etc, etc, etc..

There you go again, believing "rumours" spread via the media that simply aren't true. These rumours are being spread in the morning, keep getting repeated and repeated during the day and after midnight somewhere around 2am, a small rectification is being released stating the previous statements were either not true or cannot be confirmed.

Like the chemical suits.

Not confirmed

Or the rockets.

US: 3.000 rockets daily for the past week, Iraqi: 6 in the same timeframe. (You must be forgetting that THEY are being invaded and are simply defending themselves)

Or the use of civilians dress.

Unconfirmed

Or the terrorist style attacks.

It's called: "underground resistance", where civilians resort to violence to fight the invader (read your history, in your own words, the founding fathers would be "terrorists" viewed from the kingdom's point of view)

Or the terrorists themselves.

You mean the cell in North Iraqi, the ones Saddam was using chemical weapons on? The ones the US forces now are also fighting? Please review the data there and see that there is NO link between terrorists and Saddam.

Or the chemical plants they already found with Scud missles inside them... etc, etc, etc..

Rumor, non proven, denied official by all military spokespeople. There haven't been found any chemical plants and most likely there never will be any found (simply because there aren't any left after 1992)

It's so silly to see people that believe everything they have been lied about and even defend those lies... makes you wonder about the future of humanity.

Simply put, you are not using your own brain, but simply digest whatever the media is feeding you (a very small subset of information, heavilly colorred by Propaganda), and take it as the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, even if it is such simply and transparant lies.

[cryptorad]

Suspicious..

I was gonna let it go.. but I just couldn't. Here's a point for point for you.

Chemical suits.

Confirmed and broadcast live on TV.

Rockets.

Their rockets have flown OVER Kuwait and INTO the gulf. Much farther then they were supposed to. Call 'em any damn thing you like but don't call 'em legal by UN rules.. okie?

Civilian dress.

They've caught 'em red handed. And hundreds of people, including reporters, have seen the 'civilians' shooting at them. The ones captured had their uniforms under their civvies. The stacks of uniforms they found in 'hospitals' and the like must mean they were warm and wanted to streak to you.

Terroist style attacks.

Car bombing, attacking civilians, using civilians as shields, wearing civilian clothes while fighting, pretending surrender to trick US soldiers into range and ambushing, pretending to need help and then ambushing and execution of POW's (Yes.. I know execution isn't confirmed officially, but I saw the tape myself. If you 'use your brain', and have any real world experience, you realize that you can't hit someone between the eyes except one lucky shot in 10,000. Of course.. I'm sure to 'your brain' the Iraqi's are just the best shots in the history of warfare. To my brain, that's ridiculous and they did what they always do, executions.) Total violation of Geneva convention rules. Period.

Terrorist themselves.

Saddam has been training / threatening terrorist attacks against enemies for 15 years now. Jesus.. do some homework, HE says this.. not us. We just report it.

Chemical plants with rockets.

Chemical plants ARE proven and were found. They just haven't been proven / confirmed to be chemical WEAPONS plants. Of course, to anyone using their brain, why would you have rockets inside a regular chemical plant? I suppose when you 'use your suspicious brain' you conclude the Iraqi's use missles to treat their crops. I conclude something else.

And I suppose Saddams' son in law who defected with the proof of the VX development in 1995 (slightly after your 1992 believes) who subsequently returned to Iraq and his family and was KILLED. That was just lies and rumors too. So sayeth the left wing gods you worship. God.. your gullible.

And the atropine injectors were for.. er.. cardiac problems.. YEAH.. that's it.. cardiac problems!!

More lies and rumors right?? I suppose you didn't see the live broadcast of those either.. right??

Simply put.. you have your head and 'brain' in the sand Mr. Suspicious. You really need to change your moniker to Mr. Gullible if you can see all of this reported by ALL our news organizations live and STILL deny it. All the while creating an environment that emboldens tyrants to continue their lies and oppression of their people because they have folks like you marching around supporting them. Makes me wonder about the future of humanity.

Difference between us is that it also emboldens me to be MORE careful.. and more observant because people like you are around. And you are a danger to yourself and my family. So .. I just HAVE to reply to you in hopes that when you are undeniably totally proven wrong so there is NO POSSIBLILITY to deny it as 'lies' and 'rumors' and 'propaganda' .. I just hope that then some of my words will burn in you and maybe.. JUST maybe... make you WAKE up.

I have no help for you Suspicious.. like I said. Wait for it. It's coming. Anyone using their brain can see it; to quote someone from this thread.


G'day mate!