so whats every1s view on the US/Iraq situaton?

[Grae1]

Um.. no.. I never said anyone is going to hell.. Thats the higher power I choose to name God to decide 8) Not mine.

But yeah.. religon has some but not a lot to do with the current world situation.

[cryptorad]

Well.. I believe Ataal was very subtlely referring to something else. Something that I find as one of the major flaw's in Islam belief.

The fact that ALL non believers (Infidels.. IE.. all of us non Islam) are destined for hell. This has been determined and pre ordained and there is no chance for any of us to do anything other then go to hell.. regardless of our actions on this planet. We were placed on this planet by Allah, already destined for hell, to be a trial and tribulation for 'true believers'. To boil it down even further ... we are here for them to defeat and prove their 'worth' according to quite a few clerics of great influence.

Now granted only the extremist Muslim's are actually violently motivated by their 'clerics', but that number is sufficient to be a problem. And the fact that there is no ability to debate the situation with them because the believe is that we are little more then animals anyhow. With no place among the 'believers'.

Combine that with the blantant bold outright lies we witness on their official 'news' stations and it is EASY to see why there is a problem.

Remember.. Bin Laden declared war on the US partly because (according to HIS declaration of war) of the US atrocities of 'slaughtering innocent Muslims' in Kosovo. Isn't it ironic that in ALL the world and in all the UN... ONLY the United States was willing to actually go in and STOP that slaughter of Muslims. As soon as the issue was no longer in doubt.. the UN came roaring in to 'take over control' and 'ensure the peoples safety'. Yet Bin Laden declares war on us and blames us for the slaughter.

I'd laugh.. if it wasn't so sad and about to happen again.

I see the UN roaring into Iraq shortly to 'take over control' and 'ensure the Iraqi peoples safety'. I'm also sure there will be a whole rash of 'war declarations' on us for the atrocities we committed against the Iraqi people. And in reality, we were pretty much the ONLY ones who insisted on disarming the dictator/ tyrant and freeing the Iraqi people. Thank god some of our allies backed us up or we'd have probably been invaded by the rest of the world for this since it was SOOO evil.

Gee... history DOES repeat itself.

Of course.. I've actually wound up predicting. Maybe I'm wrong. We'll see.

[board Lizard]

But, maybe religion should be it's own off-topic thread

It is!!

http://seq.sourceforge.net/showthrea...&threadid=3115

[Lyroschen]

Forgot about that thread. \\=^ )

[StarZman]

Getting back to the subject at hand..

http://troops.netbotics.com/

[Lyroschen]

Pretty cool. Thanks for the link. \\=^ )

[Ataal]

My going to hell comment was supposed to be kind of a poor attempt at humor. My appologies if it was taken in any other way.

[Lyroschen]

Nope, not Ataal.

[Joe Blow]

Why is it that when Europe can't handle problems like Kosovo, Bosnia, etc they have to escalate it to NATO to get the US involved? But when the US asks for help it causes a big division in Europe? Could the fact that France has been selling Iraq weapons and equipment have anything to do with their strong pro-Saddam stance? Of course not. My co-worker who is a French-Morrocan told me that France is afraid the world will find out how much business they've been doing with Iraq. We all already know Russia and China have been violating UN sanctions for some time. Those sneaky frogs try to turn their misdoings in their favor. What's up with Chirac's statement regarding eastern European nations seeking EU membership against them speaking their mind. He says, "They missed a good opportunity to be quiet". What the heck is this, a mafia? Now that's the most un-democratic statement I've heard in a while. I would expect a statement like that from Saddam Hussien or Kim Jong Il but not from a leader of the free world.

P.S. I also saw the statement from him regarding the defacing the graves of soldiers who invaded Normandy. He only made an apology that the graves of British soldiers were defaced even though it was Americans that bore the brunt of that fight. I really don't like this Chirac. He reminds me too much of DeGalle who tried to break up the alliance during WWII. The invasion of Normandy was called off at one point but Winston Churchill was able to patch things up just in time. Even after the war, DeGalle was still Anti-American only giving credit to the British for saving France.

Anyway, just my 2cp

[Lyroschen]

Keep in mind, many folks hold grudges for a looooong time. Grudges are handed down from father to son, father to son. Most of this generation don't feel the guilt of the actions of our forefathers, though. Slavery was rampant, but not something I'm proud to call my heritage. What we did with the American Indians doesn't bolster my pride either. There are other references, but I'm sure you get the idea. For us, those days are "long past", and not really high on our guilt list. For others, that's all they know about America, other than we're now the most powerful single force in the world. Perhaps those in Europe still consider themselve the most significant part of the world, and everywhere else is just a sattelite country revolving around them. I can't speak for them, but it's easy to see how they would not like the idea of someone else outgrowing them, then using that growth to make world-wide decisions. For us in the US, it's a great to be able to take action when the rest of the world is sitting on their thumb. 'course it's also an act of defiance, whether we intend it to be or not. At any rate, if we're going to do stereo-typing of countries, let's take them all over, and put countries in charge of their "stereo-typical specialty". China can be in charge of all greasy take out food. Germany can become the barbers of the world.

In short, they're older, but we're bigger, and that makes them unhappy. More-over, we don't need them to take action, and that scares them. France doesn't want to help us get Saddam out of Iraq. Should we be surprised? France didn't help us get Hitler out of France!

[Yueh]

I tend to agree Lyroschen, if there is one thing I've learned from this international experience, it's that Americans (and Blair) and the rest of the world see things very differently. We (Americans) are looking toward the future and what our children will inherit. A lot of the rest of the world seems to be more concerned about who will be talking about them when they are dead.

[Lyroschen]

How about in the next War, the loser gets France?

[hhh]

To the liberals:

How does it make you feel to see Iraqi's cheering in the streets because they are free?

[Yueh]

How about all the comments from random Arabs in other middleast countries honestly wondering how Iraq could have possibly fallen so easily. They don't get it, they just don't get it.

Until there is a common understanding of each other between the Islamic world and the West, toppling dictators isn't going to fix the problem. Don't get me wrong though, it's a hell of a start but the education effort had better be incredible.