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Thread: ShowEQ for EQOA

  1. #16
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    wow..

    I talked with the Bordael, EQOA's equivalent of Absor, about what this program did and didn't do. As it doesn't do anything you couldn't do with a pen, paper, and stopwatch, he didn't have any problem with it.
    Very first thing is never take the community relations manager's word for something like that, your program *is* in violation of the EULA, and all it takes is someone else to create a ShowEQ -like app to have Sony go after them *all * (and they'll have to, if they leave yours alone they set a precedent that their EULA is "selectively enforceable".

    Moreover though, I'd never use your program. For one, it's closed source, so I have no idea what you're up to, and two, you *charge* for it, which is another reason I'm *sure* Sony will take issue with you at some point, because, again, they liability is too big.

    So, I'm not going to pay money for an unknown codebase and the potential to "disappear" someday.

    You might have some luck selling it on ebay though, right alongside the "ShowEQ Box" sellers.

  2. #17
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    Re: wow..

    Originally posted by Rhonwyn

    You are aware that using SEQ goes against the EULA for EQ right? What was being pointed out was that, by being on these boards, you are more than likely an SEQ user and therefore subject to banning.

    Anonymity is usually a good thing.
    Yes, SEQ is a violation of the EULA for EQ. My interest in this board is more that the technology(packet sniffing) and game (PCEQ/EQOA) are related. Anonymity is good if you have something to hide, but that isn't the case here. We're not doing anything abusive or malicious, and we're being very open about what we are doing.

    Originally posted by orenwolf

    Very first thing is never take the community relations manager's word for something like that, your program *is* in violation of the EULA, and all it takes is someone else to create a ShowEQ -like app to have Sony go after them *all * (and they'll have to, if they leave yours alone they set a precedent that their EULA is "selectively enforceable".

    Moreover though, I'd never use your program. For one, it's closed source, so I have no idea what you're up to, and two, you *charge* for it, which is another reason I'm *sure* Sony will take issue with you at some point, because, again, they liability is too big.

    So, I'm not going to pay money for an unknown codebase and the potential to "disappear" someday.

    You might have some luck selling it on ebay though, right alongside the "ShowEQ Box" sellers.
    It sounds like you're very set in your opinion orenwolf, but I'll try to bring up some noteworthy points:

    EQOA has a different EULA. The only point in that EULA that EQOALog could fall under is the one that refers to any action that "violates the spirit of the game", something EQOALog has taken care to avoid.

    Yes, it's closed source. So there is some measure of trust involved in running it. You run other applications though, I assume, and you trust those? Not much more I can say here. Yes, there is a charge for it. If there wasn't, it wouldn't have been developed.

    There's a free trial, and a $10 charge if you want to keep using it. That's a month's subscription to EQOA, not exactly a huge amount for a program you can use month after month.

    It's up to you to decide if you want to run it or not. It's a useful tool, available now, if you want it. If you don't, then just ignore it.

    Jerrith
    30th level Elf Cleric
    Ferran's Hope

  3. #18
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    Also to elaborate on this post, when I packetsniffed in beta the packets were not encrypted, so I'm sure that writing a program to do what his does and maybe more would not be difficult. If you trust him and want to pay him for it, thats great, if you don't, and want to make your own, then thats great to!
    -Lyenu X`Arie
    : LEQM

  4. #19
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    If you've never tried to reverse-engineer packets, you might indeed think it's a trivial exercise in looking at data, but that's not the case.

    Even unencrypted packets can be a lot of work. I tried to help someone with DAOC packets when it first came out, and for me it was a headache-inducing exercise just to figure out a few things, like level, aggression level, and a few other things that I managed to tease out of the data.

  5. #20
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    Well said, Lyenu X`Arie.

    You're welcome to use it if you want, and to write your own if you don't.

    KaL also describes it fairly well.

    For the most part, the EQOA data is relatively easy to read. Damage numbers are sent in a format I hadn't seen before: Basically, the lowest bit is the sign, and the highest bit of each byte says if there is another byte in this number or not...

    00 = 0
    01 = -1
    02 = 1
    80 01 = 64
    81 01 = -65

    Jerrith
    31st level Elf Cleric
    Ferran's Hope

  6. #21
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    This is from the mouths of the EQOA dev team, via Baelish of Castersrealm:

    One difference in EQOA to EQPC is that you can’t see how much damage another player is dealing in your group. This means that there is less of the ‘underpowered/overpowered’ argument between classes as it is more difficult to see the difference in simple DPS a class does. There are some programs which can sniff packets for EQOA to gather some information that would rather not be displayed but these do violate the EULA.

    The issue I have is charging for such a product really. And to be honest, it's not with this "lesser showeq" that I'm worried - it's that charging money for such a product my lend more ire from Sony (especially when *you* claim it to be sanctioned, unofficially or otherwise) that might get in the way of other, opensource, collaborative efforts in this direction.

  7. #22
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    Well!

    I see that, in fact, I was right:

    " “The official line, approved by their lawyers, and sent through Alex is that it is a violation of section 11 of the Rules of Conduct, which as stated in section 6 of the EULA may result in the banning/suspension of anyone’s account.

    Jerrith”"

    Source: EQOARealms

    I'm not surprised by this in the least, and if I had to guess, the problem here is that you charged for the app. Interestingly, had you just released the thing opensource in the first place, it would have enjoyed the same protections that ShowEQ does - that is, the program isn't "Illegal", and posting it as a SF project would merely have those using it be banned, and since there's no way to know who's using it and all, we would have ended up with a project that could have been used to kickstart a ShowEQOA.

    Instead, financial greed and the insanity of trusting someone other than an SOE lawyer resulted in the termination of what otherwise could have been a useful project.

  8. #23
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    Ok... I still have interest in this... I was hoping that someone was going to do this, but it has not materialized (at least I can't find it if its out there).

    So- is anyone working on such a program? I would love to help, but I don't have the expertise to do this (what fester described) myself.

    Also- since jerrith's post, eqoalog is now unavailable

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