I'm a n00blette when it comes to C or C++, I however took a VB course, a COBOL course, and a SQL/access course. VB has it downfall to...well...it can make for bad habits and that was very apparent when I hit cobol, I dont' know what C or C++ is like, but I found COBOL unforgiving when it came to errors. So anyone coming into the programming scene I would urge to follow the advice given here and probably skip VB and concentrate on something that gives you a better understanding of code and what it does exactly. I read an earlier post about once you learn one language, it is easy to learn another, this statement holds alot of weight. Since my formal training in cobol and crap, I have taught myself the basics of XML, HTML and a couple other various less known languages. I have alot of respect for the guys here that are able to keep SEQ going strong month after month, I do not know enough to do it and i'm glad they do