so whats every1s view on the US/Iraq situaton?

[high_jeeves]

So, anyone want to actually post any sort of fact, or information to support thier views? Or has this thread devolved to zealotous propoganda, and childish name calling?

--Jeeves

[board Lizard]

hahahahahahahah jeeves got owned.

just like all those times in his room when his dad would come home after a late night of drinking.

[Circles]

Originally posted by Ratt


Why not? Got something better to do?

This goes for everyone, though... if you're gonna post here, you have to be mildly intelligent. That includes the use of proper grammar, punctuation, spelling and capitalization. This l33t scr1pt kiddie bullshit isn't gonna fly. Go talk l33t somewhere else.

I promise not to talk l33t kiddie shit, I cant however, spell, punctuate, of capitalize very well, i guess im fucked

dyslexia is a bitch

[Circles]

one thing:

nuke em till they glow, and shoot em in the dark.

why?
Because they fucked with the US, and thats enough reason.

we are not "bullys" we are cops. When the shit hits the fan, people call us. when a million people starve to a dictator that is a minor functinary of hell, the US ships food. When the entire globe's economy tanks, we Bail it out.

We do stick our noses in, we protect our intrests. we OWN large portions of the world. Not its land, but teh governments and the economys on that land. We have american companies that have entered into lagitimate contracts with foriegn powers, and we will enforce them, and protect there intrests.

we are not going to war for oil. France and Germany, the two largest purchasers of Iraq sanctioned oil are trying to prevent that supply being cut off.

we are going to war to stop a threat. Threat you see, are MUCH WORSE to the economys then both war and peace. when there is a threat of war, economys are depressed. people live with fear and doubt. they buy less, then consume less, their performance goes down. this is the last thing you want... some UN "inspection" to drag on and on for months.

What bush should have done is what we have done in the past: kill them all, THEN call the UN to send in peace keeping forces and humanitarian forces. These two things it does well.

[Iam_Walrus]

Ahh... I shouldn't have taken the weekend off, I see that the faggoty liberals are incensed?

I'm a biggot for being against special rights for sexuality? So are you a biggot for being against heterosexual rights? I thought this was the age of equal opportunity? If homosexuals are given special considerations, I demand that heterosexuals be given equitable special considerations.

Who's the biggot?

Proof? There's no amount of proof that anyone could offer you, jeeves, to change your brainwashed, liberal, anti-American mind. The documented physical evidence that the lying bastard Colin Powell stated was apparently not good enough, so what point is there in linking websites or news articles? This is simply another case of you being right when everyone else is wrong.

And to think I was speaking to bubba and you're the one that freaked out.

Must have hit too close to home...

[high_jeeves]

Well, you are a bigot, if you dont think that gay people deserve the SAME rights as anyone else in the country.. currently, they do not.. so, being against gay rights, is claiming that certain people do not deserve the same freedoms as other people... Not very american of you, now is it?

As for Colin Powell, his physical evidence stated that terrorists were in Iraq, and that there were cells, and training camps there... I'm sure there are.. I'm sure there are also some in Iran, Saudi, Kuwait, Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc... we have also found them in Spain, Germany, England, America, etc... From there, Powell stated that there is no way these camps could exists without the knowledge of the Iraqi government... if he has proof that there is a high-level connection, he didnt share is last week when he gave his presentation.

liberal, anti-American mind

This is always the war-cry of the hard core, rightwingers when war talk comes around... If you dont agree with me, you are not american... when we observe that sentiment, we immediatly see who the real Americans are... In the America I grew up in, and I was tought, everyone has a right to their opinion, and we respect eachothers opinions as just that... diverse opinions.. Seems to me that diversity of opinion is totally antithisis to you, and your ilk.. perhaps you would be better off living in a country with a dictator that won by 100% of the vote every election? At least that way, you could be sure that nobody voiced an opinion that was not yours...

This is simply another case of you being right when everyone else is wrong.

I never said I was right, and everyone else was wrong.. as a matter of fact, YOU are the one who is making this statement.. I am expressing my opinion, backing it with facts... I am STILL waiting from somebody who disagrees with me to present their OPINION, and back it up with facts.. so far, all I have seen is anger, belittlement, and propaganda... if you are the embodyment patriot, and a true american, with your intolerance of other beliefs and opinions, and absolute lack of ability to argue a point with anything other than agry words, then this country is doomed...

--Jeeves

[Ekin]

Because they fucked with the US, and thats enough reason.

I am not american . I won't agree on this . They fucked with the US because US did fucked with them.

Also , Many people around the world don't think US is a cop . What we do think US is a theft , rogue . What US doing right now is fighting for the oil . Trying to control whole world economy .

Who is the dicator ? Billion of people against war . Did US government hear ?

[board Lizard]

Lol Billions of people against the war? I think not.

and

so, being against gay rights, is claiming that certain people do not deserve the same freedoms as other people

Homosexuality is a genetic defect. Not to sound evil or anything, but rather be more of a realist. Think about it, why would a species try and cause itself to not be attracted to the opposite sex and thereby canceling out reproduction? By doing that it would be going against millions of years of evolution. It was just a random genetic mutation which at the end of the day is defective. And there is no way you can argue against that.

[high_jeeves]

It was just a random genetic mutation which at the end of the day is defective. And there is no way you can argue against that.

Actually, that is not true, since there is currently no scientific evidence that states that homosexuality is genetic. In addition, there are quite a few homosexuals in this world who have/do bear children... So, your argument is false. Homosexuality has been in existance for thousands of years, AND is prevelant in the animal kindgom.. so, unless homosexuality is a genetic mutation in MOST species on the planet (by the nature of mutation, the chances of this are extremely small), there is more to it than that.

Your argument is totally besides the point anyways.. they are people.. they deserve the same rights as ALL other people (atleast according to that silly little thing, called a constitution).

Lol Billions of people against the war? I think not.

Once again.. think first, type second.. there are billions of people in the world against this war.. As of 1999 the world had more than 6 billion people in it.. I would bet that atleast 1/6th of the people on this planet do not agree with this war... Most of Europe, Most of Russia, Most of the Middle East, and even half of the US...

--Jeeves

[board Lizard]

I thought you said you were no longer going to respond to my comments

[high_jeeves]

I thought you said you were no longer going to respond to my comments

Well, that shows just how poor your reading comprehension skills are then...

--Jeeves

[addicted.to.eq]

First of all:

To discuss a thread like some of you do, especially giving names to others and taunt them, is a sign of missing intelligence in my eyes. Or, in other words, if you ar lacking in arguments, why you don't be quiet and let other opinions be guilty?

I am german, and i feel very amused about the proud some of you show about your right to say what you think and about your freedom on the one side, but don't accept other opinions on the other side. I am not talking about Iraq or Saddam Hussein, i am talking about the reacts of some posts here.
Listen, i learned in my life that your personal freedom ends at the point, where the freedom of someone other starts. Would be worth to think about it the next time you try to taunt someone here.

It is very interesting to see arguments like "we have the weapons, we decide who dies." Look to your own country, look at the children, running through your streets with guns, shooting each other. Look at your racism problems, still there. And than tell me something about the right to judge someone only when he has an other opinion than you? Funny. Again, talking about judging someones post, not Iraq.

Originally posted by board Lizard
Homosexuality is a genetic defect. Not to sound evil or anything, but rather be more of a realist. you can argue against that.

You are wrong here, board Lizard. Homosexuality is implemented during the first 6 weeks of pregnance, by the mother's hormon production. It is as simple as that. Try to check this out by yourself, you can find books about this theme. And it is also wrong that Homosexuality can be inherited.
And to Iam_Walrus: think about it, you have a wife, she gets pregnant, you become a baby. And than one day you have to realize this child is homosexual. What now? Surprise? Different situation because now it is YOUR own problem?

And just another important point: Don't make the mistake to listen to your own medias only, shall it be televison or newspaper. Try to get information from outside the U.S., and you will be astonished how much you DO NOT know about the things happen in the whole world. Europeans fear the U.S cause of their arrogant and bigheaded behaviour. You , the U.S, are the world might number one. Sure. So you have the right to do whatever you want? No. More than this you have the heavy responsibility to use this great might wisely, be a paradigm, not the big bully, playing with muscels and strike everyone down who is not your opinion.

I know, this is more than off topic, but as you, i also have the right to tell you my opinion, right?

And excuse me for my bad english, it is not my nature language.

[cryptorad]

Half the US is not against the war. There are those who claim those numbers.. and they are wrong. I've recently seen national polls with numbers as high as 83% who say it's time for Saddam to be taken out. And.. if you were simply living in good ole normal America (not Greenwich village or Hollywood) then you'd realize that's exactly where the sentiment is. Bush isn't doing this because he's a cowboy. He's doing it because WE WANT HIM TO! And we don't go to marches in downtown Washington or New York. We leave that to the professionals who do it all the time.. which is why we ignore them usually.


Here's an interesting question though.. How many people who are actually THREATENED by Iraq are for a war against him??

Maybe you should be paying attention to THAT percentage, as it carries more weight in determining the need or desire for war. Rather then the complaints of those who have no risk associated with the consequences of their opinions.

There are tons of people chiming in with their opinions on the need for a war who have absolutely NO relationship, good or bad, in the scenario. And almost ALL of those folks say No. And even at that.. you can only muster less then half the countries voting no. Of course.. some of those voting no are certainly making ALOT of noise. France is quickly becoming very unpopular with even Europe, they've been so vocal. Seems normal and reasonable to me.

The war protestors managed to generate quite a few numbers in some countries. Still.. they were NOT a majority in most of those countries. They stage the protests in the MOST liberal cities they can find hoping they get enough numbers to have some effect.

And... the protests DID have some effect. And now another delay is occuring because of them. Still, they are NOT the majority, and the probability of war continues. Not because of our opinion.. not because of the protestors opinion.. not because we need more oil.. but BECAUSE SADDAM REFUSES TO STOP!

WHY do we have to keep losing sight of this??

/sarcasm
Oh.. that's right... because then the War would be the right thing to do and THAT CAN NEVER BE so let's ignore it.
/sarcasm off

That seems to be the way it plays out. Delays .. are increasing the danger daily of an expanded war. EXACTLY what the protestors say they don't want. If they were smart.. IF.. they were as savvy as they claim.. they'd SUPPORT action against Iraq. NO ONE can say Saddam doesn't deserve this, only that he doesn't deserve it YET. How ridiculous is it to increase the danger for everyone over something like that. IF there was support for the obvious then Saddam would see world unity and it's possible he would leave on his own without any war. If he didn't.. then he would be taken out so fast.. and so surely.. there would be no danger of expansion of this war.

If there was support for it.. then we'd take him out. And we'd go home. But of course.. there are those who say 'no you won't'.. you'll instill your OWN government. Funny how Germany and France don't seem to be 'our' government today. Those are both countries we had to march armies into. TWICE .. in fact. And there are lots of other examples of what happens when we march in. Those countries are the BEST countries in the world today. Most succesful.. most desirious to live in.. and the ONES MAKING THE MOST NOISE NOW!! HOW fucking ironic IS THAT?

But.. alas.. the dissension continues. And that continues to inflame this into a likely full blown conflict that may involve everyone. God knows where it will end then. Has anyone ever thought about what happens if they actually DO force the US into a corner? And force the US to fight for it's survival? That's a terrifying thought to me, because.. our rapid destruction of Iraq's '3rd largest standing army in the world' in 72 hours was no accident. Everyone cried "no.. don't.. stop" back then too. Everyone predicted the US would fail.. that we'd be destroyed.. that we'd be sorry. We were sorry we didn't finish the job. And that was because we listened to liberals.... Ayep.. it was a mistake alright.


How can liberals call themselves smart when they create political situations like that? Is it simply because they can't stand to EVER compromise?? They can't stand to EVER lose a compromise?? I think so.. personally.

[board Lizard]

Posted by Jeeves on page 3

Yay! Way to start with the personal attacks... I can now safely ignore everything you post..

Posted by Jeeves on page 5

Well, that shows just how poor your reading comprehension skills are then...

Durrrrrrrrrrr. Idiot. Way to remember things you posted 2 pages back, I guess your homogenes are to blame.

think about it, you have a wife, she gets pregnant, you become a baby. And than one day you have to realize this child is homosexual. What now? Surprise? Different situation because now it is YOUR own problem?

I'd beat it back to being straight.

[high_jeeves]

Half the US is not against the war. There are those who claim those numbers.. and they are wrong. I've recently seen national polls with numbers as high as 83% who say it's time for Saddam to be taken out.

Please quote your source... I think you might be misreading the poll... As I posted before, A CNN-Gallup poll on Feb. 9th showed the following numbers:

Is war inevitable:
75% - Yes
20% - No

Bush moving to quickly towards war:
52% - No
46% - Yes

Iraq poses an immediate threat:
39% - Yes
47% - No immediate threat
13% - No threat at all

As you can see by these numbers, half the country CLEARLY doesnt want us to go to war right now, and OVER half the country doesnt see saddam as an immediate threat.

As for international views:

France: (Poll on Jan 23rd)

76% oppose war (compared to 14% who were against the Gulf War in 1991)

Great Britian: (Feb 16th)

52% - Opposed to war
29% - Pro war

In Great Britian, recent polls ranked countries by how much they threaten the world.

Rankings:

1) US
2) N. Korea
3) Iraq

So, as you can see, the supposition that the international community, and our own country is not against the war, is just not true..

And.. if you were simply living in good ole normal America (not Greenwich village or Hollywood) then you'd realize that's exactly where the sentiment is

I live in Austin, TX... not exactly the democratic capitol of the world.. yet, atleast half of my friends and neighbors are against the war.. many of them are even tried and true republicans.

but BECAUSE SADDAM REFUSES TO STOP!

Stop doing what? He hasnt done anything that we can prove for 10 years now... maybe we should wait until we can prove he is actually doing something, before we kill him?

Those are both countries we had to march armies into. TWICE .. in fact. And there are lots of other examples of what happens when we march in. Those countries are the BEST countries in the world today. Most succesful.. most desirious to live in.. and the ONES MAKING THE MOST NOISE NOW!! HOW fucking ironic IS THAT?

That was 50+ years ago... I fail to see the irony, the people are totally different, the world climate is totally different... I mean, the Romans took over Greece about 2000 years ago.. isnt it ironic that I still like athens better than rome?

Everyone cried "no.. don't.. stop" back then too. Everyone predicted the US would fail.. that we'd be destroyed.. that we'd be sorry. We were sorry we didn't finish the job. And that was because we listened to liberals.... Ayep.. it was a mistake alright.

Once again.. show me some facts... polling from 1991 shows that again, you are speaking of revisionist history here:

During the war, we saw the following numbers when asked:

"Do you agree with the decision to begin the ground war, do you think we should not have begun it, or do you think we should have begun it sooner? "

We see the following results:

60% - Start now
20% - Start sooner
14% - Not start

So, 80% of the country was for the first war. That includes quite a few of these evil super-villians you refer to as "liberals".

Some additional polls that you might find interesting:

How long should the US keep fighting?

U.S. troops should keep fighting until Iraq withdraws from Kuwait.
Agree 92%
Disagree 6%

U.S. troops should keep fighting until Iraq's military capability is destroyed.
Agree 77%
Disagree 18%

U.S. troops should beep fighting until Saddam Hussein is removed from power.
Agree 75%
Disagree 21%


So, as you can see, 75% of the country thought we should KEEP GOING! Why did we stop? We freed up our oil...

How can liberals call themselves smart when they create political situations like that? Is it simply because they can't stand to EVER compromise?? They can't stand to EVER lose a compromise?? I think so.. personally.

I dont know.. I havnt seen here, or in the news any liberals running around calling conservatives all morons and saying they should all be killed... yet I hear that here and in the news.. perhaps the conservatives are the ones who are unable to see multiple sides of an issue and compromise... So far, all I'm seeing from conservatives here, is an uncanny ability to make up facts such that it seems like the entire world is on their side...

--Jeeves