New XP fomular, confirmed for 50+ blue

[jonseq]

What is your methodology for measuring 'no bonus exp'?

In both scenarios you should get it; what makes you certain that you aren't?

[jonseq]

AA per kill definitely jumps from a con 6 levels below you to 5 levels below. That's what we're talking about when we say 'bonus exp', isn't it?

[perlmonkey]

Originally posted by fester

In short, I havent found any way to kill with a higher level and get bonus on the lower EXCEPT killing ungrouped with the lower level and use higher levels for healing, buffing, nuke down from 20% etc.

The old method used to be to be ungrouped with a druid, ranger, etc. The high level character would place their largest damage shield on themselves and pull a crowd of greens (red to the PLee). As the greens died on the DS, the PLee would poke each one once for at least one damage, but NOT get agro (thus no costly healing of the low-level punk). Ideally you picked a zone with a good zem and mobs that fight to the death.

Usually a druid would pull with something really high agro like snare or a big debuff. I don't know what the best ranger argro-generator is.

Does this no longer work?

As for the 5-levels thing, I do think SOE has worked hard to make sure PLing is no longer easy, however there are still some major holes in this:

1. Pet classes who have a mage to summon high level items (or buy in the bazaar)
2. Pet classes can have 65th level buffs put on their pets (have you ever watched a level 10 cleric try to heal a level 10 mage pet that has Virtue and Fo7.... it's funny).
3. A very high level debuff against a level 30 mob makes it pretty unimpressive to a 25th level toon
4. Chanters can still do the old mem-wipe based PLing trick
5. Bards... sigh, bards ;-)
6. Twinking, of course, though recommended levels have nerfed that a bit. One thing to note about twinking is that most of the new 'super-stacking' effects like regen and vengance work at level 1 even when the item has a recommended level.

Hope this helps.

[fester]

Originally posted by jonseq
AA per kill definitely jumps from a con 6 levels below you to 5 levels below. That's what we're talking about when we say 'bonus exp', isn't it?

Yes. What makes me certain is that I have done extensive testing. There are a number of cases where you will not get the bonus even if the mobs are within "bonus levels" of your level. The group members levels can "disable" your ability to obtain the bonus exp (e.g. a group member is 5 levels above you or the mob.)

Originally posted by Cryonic
How are you checking the amount of EXP each character is getting?
Actual numeric EXP is only sent when you zone. The rest of the time the server just sends you updates when the client needs to update the xp bar display (every 1/330th of the level). So the only way to see how much numeric exp you gained is to zone, record number, kill mob, zone out, record new number, take difference.

Do you have some exp going to AA? I believe that AA takes from the prebonus EXP and then the rest (what went to level) is given the bonus.

Checking by killing the same level mob repeatedly and calculating the /330 value to estimate the exp given. You can get within a few thousand points of the raw exp by killing 10 of the same level mob.

Actual numbers are no longer sent during zone and have not been for many months.

100 percent going to AA, this eliminates the "level exp" bonus/penalty. For instance, level 60 when last checked was 75 percent (a penalty,) level 59 was 95 percent, and I believe I remember level 55 being 115 percent (a bonus.) This was all mapped out when the "got rid of hell levels." This bonus/exp was used to make hell levels faster and non-hell levels slower.

AA does not get the "hell level" bonus/penalty. AA does get the level based (-5 to +5 mob level) exp.

[fester]

One interesting point, on the Oct 9th patch, they revamped the ZEM in every zone I visit. They probably changed the ZEM for the majority of exp zones. There really needs to be a "new" collection of ZEMs in light of this. With raw exp removed from charprofile (when it shrunk from 11,000 bytes to 4,000 bytes), there is far too much work involved with determining raw numbers. It is also possible they may have changed the exp formulas. Especially if they no longer accurately map the events.

[Dark]

I might be blind but is the ZEM shown anywhere on the SEQ screen.
I have looked at the terminal window when zoning and spotted it there.

Has anyone got a link to a list of all the zones and the ZEM (doesnt have to be related to SEQ)?

[Cryonic]

The first post of this thread has most of the old ZEM values.

[Dark]

Yup saw that but its dated 12m mths ago and i'm sure that there have been a few changes since then.

[Zaphod]

We now get and display the actual ZEM values upon zoning in the terminal window. The experience window hasn't been updated to use this ZEM value yet, mostly because it would require changing a bunch of the formulas (because they are based on a theoretical calculation of an integer ZEM value as opposed to being passed a precision float value).

Enjoy,
Zaphod (dohpaZ)

[Dedpoet]

Usually a druid would pull with something really high agro like snare or a big debuff. I don't know what the best ranger argro-generator is.

Does this no longer work?

Yes, this still works, but it's actually not as efficient as casting the DS directly onto the PLee and having them pull. That way they get their melee skills up in the process, don't get KS'd as often, and if your PLer has kei/tranq/whatever the healing isn't bad as long as you're not killing too far out of your league. Kunark dungeons are the best zones for this...nothing runs.

[jonseq]

<quote>There are a number of cases where you will not get the bonus even if the mobs are within "bonus levels" of your level. The group members levels can "disable" your ability to obtain the bonus exp (e.g. a group member is 5 levels above you or the mob.) </quote>

That sucks. I was operating under the avg group level within 5 of PLee assumption, but never did any tests myself.

So you've grouped say, a lvl 60 and 65, killing lvl 55 mobs, and got no bonus exp, but with the 65 ungrouped, you got it?

The group members too high - could that be based on an average of all the group members other than yourself?

That definitely seems to put a damper on PLing, or at least, makes it more sensible to have the PLer DS-tank massive numbers of low dark blues for as many levels as feasible.

[Circles]

Originally posted by Zaphod
We now get and display the actual ZEM values upon zoning in the terminal window. The experience window hasn't been updated to use this ZEM value yet, mostly because it would require changing a bunch of the formulas (because they are based on a theoretical calculation of an integer ZEM value as opposed to being passed a precision float value).

Enjoy,
Zaphod (dohpaZ)

actual as in your riping from the client or actual using a table that needs to be hand fed? I ask cause butcher block used to be a 160 zem, as are all newbie zones, yet showeq a few nights ago listed it as a 75

[fester]

Originally posted by jonseq
So you've grouped say, a lvl 60 and 65, killing lvl 55 mobs, and got no bonus exp, but with the 65 ungrouped, you got it?

The group members too high - could that be based on an average of all the group members other than yourself?

That definitely seems to put a damper on PLing, or at least, makes it more sensible to have the PLer DS-tank massive numbers of low dark blues for as many levels as feasible.

It seems to use the average group level and if you are outside 5 levels of the average and inside the group, you do not get the bonus.

Also, there seems to have been a change with DS. DS damage used to be assigned to no one and whoever actually deals damage will get the exp when a mob is killed by DS. Recently this was changed where the person wearing the DS gets the credit. This requires the PL'd character to take the hits and deal some damage to his attackers to get exp. You can no longer pull a number of mobs with a high level wearing DS and beat on them once by the low level to get exp.

Originally posted by Circles
actual as in your riping from the client or actual using a table that needs to be hand fed? I ask cause butcher block used to be a 160 zem, as are all newbie zones, yet showeq a few nights ago listed it as a 75

I believe you are confused, I have never know BB to be anything other than 0.75 ZEM. PC was the first zone to have 1.60 ZEM. LOIO was once 1.0 ZEM and consider the best newbie zone.

[speedracer]

"Also, there seems to have been a change with DS. DS damage used to be assigned to no one and whoever actually deals damage will get the exp when a mob is killed by DS. Recently this was changed where the person wearing the DS gets the credit. This requires the PL'd character to take the hits and deal some damage to his attackers to get exp. You can no longer pull a number of mobs with a high level wearing DS and beat on them once by the low level to get exp"

Still worked for me a few weeks ago (early December) in ToFS. Pulling about 8 2nd floor mobs, letting them beat on me and go OOM, then dragging over to 2 lower level toons. Mobs were generally below 50% life before low levels engaged. They got the XP every time, every mob. Did this for 2 nights, couple hours each, and had no trouble.