Calling all board natzis (rant alert)

[jtkirk]

My prior response was to high_jeeves, incidentally, not to the hasty post S_B_R just put up.

S_B_R, you just did exactly what you accused me of - showing an inferiority complex by responding in a knee jerk fashion to a view that differs from your own.

You took two sentances out of context, and made some very liberal changes to the rest of my content, in an effort to flame me.

I guess it was too much to expect that you would actually read what I said in the context I provided.

There's a big difference between "use the search function", and "Learn to use the search function", in connotation. The former is a directive on a short lived, and easy action. The latter implies ignorance about something very basic. It implies stupidity on the part of the person you are addressing.

And yes, it is your fault, and that of others who take this predatory tone on message boards, that reasonable and normal people get offended. Not offended due to any potential content that you might provide (even if it is an opposing viewpoint), but for the sheer unmitigated and unwarranted hostility with which you deliver that content.

So to you, instead of saying "Please be nice", I say "Learn not to flame people". Because you really do sound like an asshole to me. And a stupid one.

[Cryonic]

Hostility??? "Use search" or "Learn to use search" aren't hostile. Telling you to "go use the <insert expletive here> Search" is hostile. The problem is that forums like this and other Net medium remove emotional content from the message. That leaves just the information of the message behind which is given emotional content by the reader. There is no body language or vocal intonation in text, yet we are used to having it when dealing with others, so the message is interpreted from that standpoint. You're in a bad mood, so the message seems hostile. You're in a good mood so the message just seems to point out something you didn't think of doing.

On the Net you either have a tough hide and get over things and don't take them personally, or you have a soft hide. In which case you will take offense and will be flayed alive by others for your response.

I find it hilarious when a persons response devolves into nothing more than childish insults (this is a general statement, not directed at any poster in specific) when they are given the answer to their question and they don't like the response.

[S_B_R]

Originally posted by jtkirk
Because you really do sound like an asshole to me. And a stupid one.

So now we reduce ourselves to name calling? Well you can go down to that level but I am done with this thread.

I took nothing you said out of context, the context is clear. I am defending my position, my opinion. That is not the same as a question that could have been answered (admittedly so by yourself) with a simple search. You admitted, to yourself, that you were wrong, but when it came to actually admitting it publicly you chose to defend it. That sir is no ones fault but your own, no one forced you to defend a position that was indefensible. That was a decision you made of your own accord.

As I said before, if you find "Use the search function" offensive then just imagine to yourself that it says "I'm not sure what the answer is, but I know it's been discussed before. Perhaps if you try searching for the answer, you may get lucky."

[S_B_R]

Originally posted by Cryonic
Hostility??? "Use search" or "Learn to use search" aren't hostile. Telling you to "go use the <insert expletive here> Search" is hostile. The problem is that forums like this and other Net medium remove emotional content from the message. That leaves just the information of the message behind which is given emotional content by the reader. There is no body language or vocal intonation in text, yet we are used to having it when dealing with others, so the message is interpreted from that standpoint. You're in a bad mood, so the message seems hostile. You're in a good mood so the message just seems to point out something you didn't think of doing.

On the Net you either have a tough hide and get over things and don't take them personally, or you have a soft hide. In which case you will take offense and will be flayed alive by others for your response.

I find it hilarious when a persons response devolves into nothing more than childish insults (this is a general statement, not directed at any poster in specific) when they are given the answer to their question and they don't like the response.

here here! Thank you Cryonic. Whenever I post "Use the search function" there is no Malice behind my response. No alterier motive. I'm simply tired of reading and answering the same questions over and over again, and I want that person to know the topic has been discussed before. The person posting the question might not find the answer very quickly the first time they are told to search, but the next question will undoubtedly be answer much faster by searching first and asking questions second.

[jtkirk]

And again, the point is lost by taking a snippet out of context.

My main pont from the start has been that you can let people know about the info they can search for, without sounding like an arrogant SOB in the process.

If you take the time to answer an easy question for someone who is stuck (even if it was just posting a link for that person), it doesn't take much more effort to sound sincere about wanting to help.

Communication is as much about tone as it is about content.

[S_B_R]

Originally posted by jtkirk
And again, the point is lost by taking a snippet out of context.

My main pont from the start has been that you can let people know about the info they can search for, without sounding like an arrogant SOB in the process.

If you take the time to answer an easy question for someone who is stuck (even if it was just posting a link for that person), it doesn't take much more effort to sound sincere about wanting to help.

Communication is as much about tone as it is about content.

How did I take that fact that you called me an asshole out of context? I guess I'm not privy to the pleasant context of the word asshole.?

But, like I have said and Cryonic side "use the search function" is only hostile if you want it to be hostile. It's no more or less hostile than "Learn to use the search function". What tone where you trying to convey when you called me an asshole?

Story time:
My brother in law is an avid player of EQ, more so than I am. Over the last year or so that we have been playing together I've learn that too many emoticons is never a bad thing when I am talking to him in game. For example, we'll say my Brothers name is "bob" I get a tell something like this:

Bob: "Hey, are you in a group yet?"
Me: "Yep, I jsut got one, going good so far"
Bob: "you got room for one more?"
Me: "Yep we got 1 spot open"

Here is where the "tone" in which I talked to him changes in his mind. To him when I said "Yep we got 1 spot open" he heard(read) "Yeah we got 1 spot open but it's not for you". So I have to remeber who I'm talking to and put emoticons in and the exchange would go something like this.

Bob: "Hey are you in a group yet?"
Me: "Yep! , I just got one and it's going good so far! "
Bob: "you got room for one more?"
Me: "Yep! We got 1 spot open "

If I say it that way he seems to understand the "tone" I ment it in.

The moral here is the tone is what reader wants it to be...

[PainNSuffering]

when it comes to tech suport you get what you pay for. in this case, I am supprised they are not doing house calls.

This program is free. The people who work on it are kind enugh to set up a message board, and take time out of thier lives, at no componsation to them selves to support the product yet you think they do it badly by telling people to look to what is already written up about the question they asked. not only wasting thier time, but thier $$ in bandwith.

I work in tech support. we have documentation that answers 95% of our customers problesm. yet so that they do not have to look up the answers or do any work them selves they pay us $30 a month to do it for them. Even though I get payed 15/hr to answer dumb questions I still get tired of telling some one how to set up thier e-mail for the 4th time on 20 min.

perhaps you guys should add a pay pal link for every quest that is asked over again, $5 per repeat question. just put a disclamer on a banner that if you see a pay pal link on your thrread, either pay the cash or search as the question has already been answerd.

[monster69]

Originally posted by jtkirk
So to you, instead of saying "Please be nice", I say "Learn not to flame people". Because you really do sound like an asshole to me. And a stupid one.

lol

Originally posted by S_B_R
So now we reduce ourselves to name calling? Well you can go down to that level but I am done with this thread.

Since most of the posts I have made on this board have been fairly useless anyway, I'd like to step up and fill in here.


jtkirk,

You seem to represent, in a nut shell, the typical liberal, whine about the shafting I am getting, why don't we all just get along, you shouldn't ever say anything that may offend anyone, politically correct bullshit asshole that has driven this country into a shitty state where decisions like "You can't recite the Pledge of Allegiance in the classroom" are almost acceptable.

I don't mind going to the lower level with you because people like you make me sick. You "read" emotion into plain text that was never intended. You EXPECT people to give you information, and do it in a friendly tone. You get your feelings hurt by something that may have indeed been a harsh response, may even should be a harsh response.

I for one don't give a flying monkey shit if you get your feelings hurt. This is not a flower smelling, hug your neighbor, be kind to the old lady on the street community. This is a TECHNICAL community, where certain standards of knowledge and ability are expected.

Take your pansy ass whining to a board where somewhere cares because I sure as hell don't, and no one else here has time for it.


Monster69

[Alwayslost]

jtkirk,

/boggle


Monster69,

ROFLMAO!!!!!


PainNSuffering,

/agree Every new poster to this board should pay $20 up front and each "Start a New thread" costs $5

[BlueAdept]

Hell it is very common for any software bulletin board to tell users to USE THE SEARCH BUTTON.

Check out the documentation to one of the more popular firewalls (www.smoothwall.org). They dedicated 30 some odd pages telling the end user to RTFM (seriously) and to use the search button before posting ANYTHING. (It really is pretty funny for those who do know what they are talking about).

You might as well flame them too since they have the same philosophy. I can also provide you with about 20 other sites too who do and say the exact same thing.

[RSB]

Even if people are a bit bitter they still give an answer. Just because you don't like the tone of their voice, it doesn't change the fact that the answer is COMPLETELY valid.

If your in your office and people keep walking by your desk and asking what time it is you might answer the first few people but eventually most people will say "LOOK AT THE DAMN CLOCK!!!!". Which really is the answer to their question. Now you are complaining that you've been told to do the legwork yourself siting the fact that it would take less time to just say "7pm". Honestly the others are correct. The only people that complain about the RTFM or USE SEARCH answers are those that contribute ZERO to the boards. And generally they don't contribute to any boards.

Its those same type of people that post "GOT A QUESTION. PLEASE HELP!!!!". then when they get a few people pointing them in the right direction they either don't post anything or just say "Figured it out. Thx". When they really should post up what fixed their problem even if it does make them look a bit stupid so that others can USE SEARCH and see that they aren't all alone.

[TuxedoTex]

Actually, one of the reasons I posted a question without searching first (which fortunately for me, had not been answered yet) was because I'm used to 95% of message boards search functions not being worth a damn (ezBoards, anyone?).

So please don't jump to the conclusion that newer people that ask questions without searching because we want a quick answer, or that we think our time is worth more than anyone elses. There's simply some of us who are used to search buttons that are about as useful as tits on a boar.

[Mr. Suspicious]

because I'm used to 95% of message boards search functions not being worth a damn

It's exactly the opposate, 95% are usefull and only a small 5% are not.

(ezBoards, anyone?).

Have tried the ezBoard search function in the last year? You'll find it very helpfull.

[BlueAdept]

Originally posted by TuxedoTex
So please don't jump to the conclusion that newer people that ask questions without searching because we want a quick answer, or that we think our time is worth more than anyone elses. There's simply some of us who are used to search buttons that are about as useful as tits on a boar.

Yea I buy that...and Microsoft doesnt collect any personal info on its customers either.

I have found that very few of the boards have poor search features. Even so, why not try it first before posting the question and wasting the 10 to 1000 peoples time reading the question that has been answered many times before? Sure sounds like the person who doesnt search IS lazy, thinks his time is more valuable than others and/or is because they want a quick answer.

[RSB]

Ummmm

So please don't jump to the conclusion

You tell us not to jump to conclusion when by your own words

I'm used to 95% of message boards search functions not being worth a damn

Isn't that just what you told us not to do? You jumped to the conclusion that the search feature was not usesful. When in fact it is normally because the person using search doesn't look into the features of the search like having a "+" infront of manditory words or quotes around exact phrases, blah blah blah.

In many case I'm sure (yes I'm jumping to conclusions) what happens when people use the search they put something in like

redhat packages

get 2 or more pages of post and say to themselves "Bugger this, it will take me forever to find what I need I'll just ask".....that is if they even bothered to to use search at all. Where if they thought a bit and narrowed the search with one more word "required" then they would get less than a handful of hits that the could look through.